Interview with George Curtis
George Curtis – Brisbane bar owner and operator – shares insights after the opening his second venue, Milquetoast.
In the heart of Brisbane’s CBD, Milquetoast – a new addition to Brisbane’s bar scene – offers a thoughtful take on what a neighbourhood wine bar can be. Helmed by George Curtis and James Horsfall, this intimate space is anything but ordinary. Milquetoast blends laid-back charm with a dynamic offering of inventive cocktails, low-intervention wine and playful British-inspired dishes.
In this Q&A, George Curtis shares the vision behind Milquetoast – his second venue – some of the challenges in bringing it to life and what it takes to set trends and push boundaries in the bar industry today.
What inspired you to open Milquetoast and how does it differ from your previous venue, Before + After?
The simple answer is the Melbourne and London wine bar scene. The dining culture in those cities is built on small neighborhood joints offering incredible food and wine done in a super simple but delicious way and I love everything about these places. The deeper and more meaningful answer is a dish I had at Gerald’s Bar in Melbourne; black pudding and a fried egg on toast. So simple, so delicious, and so nostalgic for me. As I was sitting there tucking into it inside this small buzzing bar playing jazz on vinyl, I thought to myself that this is the absolute dream. I can’t remember a happier time.
Milquetoast is a wine bar that offers high quality cocktails, wine and food in a homey environment. We wanted an offering that was approachable yet unique, non-pretentious and in an environment that pays homage to those wine bars that James and I love. Before + After is a much more niche and educational concept which aims to bring something entirely new into the forefront of people’s mind when it comes to drinking out.
What challenges did you foresee from your previous experience to then navigate – and what unforeseen challenges did you encounter in the process of opening this new venue? How did you overcome them and what would you do differently next time?
The usual challenges of ‘how are we going to make money?’, ‘where is the money going to come from?’, ‘how do we stay as true as possible to the concept?’ and ‘what manual challenges will we need to overcome?’. It was a tough gig, opening this one, but only because we were converting a completely empty car park. Plumbing, electrical and building the bar/kitchen were the big obstacles but we worked with some incredible tradies to get it all done in just five weeks. Every day threw up a plethora of obstacles and we spent a good four weeks chasing our tails as we tried to figure it out bit by bit. The simple way around it is… just do it. You have no choice. Find the solution.
I don’t think I’ve ever had longer days in my life and it’s extremely taxing when you don’t have time to eat or relax for a sustained period of time. There were times when both of us nearly reached breaking point but it’s worth it in the end when you see the venue come to life.
How did you decide on the concept and design for Milquetoast – what was the vision behind it?
As with Before + After, I wanted a bar that I would want to eat and drink in, as did James. We wanted high energy when it comes to service and the atmosphere, so the playlist was key, as was the lighting and the way we’ve set the tables and chairs out. We wanted something super homely – with warm, dim lighting, lots of cool vintage furniture off Marketplace, plants and books, some great cabinetry, lamps and mirrors.
We wanted something that Brisbane hasn’t got and that’s a low budget fit out that instantly relaxes you. There are too many high end, luxurious, expensive fit outs in Brisbane – we are so not that and went the opposite way to prove it can be done.
Conceptually, it was easy. James and I love food, wine and cocktails so that was sorted. The name, branding and background came about from a panic-stricken brainstorming session when our original desired name was taken shortly before we registered the company. The word Milquetoast came first, and then incredibly we discovered there was this whole backstory about a cartoon character called Caspar Milquetoast from the 1920’s, from whom the word derives, and it became a really fleshed out concept.
What strategies do you use to ensure your bars stand out in a competitive market?
One very simple strategy and that is to offer something different to what everybody else is doing – as long as it’s something that’s special, personally. How many wine bars were there in Brisbane CBD when we opened? Zero. So that’s an easy box ticked. Then we took each crucial part of a venue – food, drink, service and ambience – and made sure we absolutely nailed it. If you’re not doing something that has an obvious point of difference to the rest of the city, don’t do it. You’ll just be clogging up the landscape. I love doing new things and I love the satisfaction of people enjoying them.
Aside from that, hire the right people and make damn sure you make them feel valued and you give them the freedom to strut their stuff, otherwise in 6 months you’ll be hiring a new team and your product will suffer.
Where is your attention? I’m seeking to understand where your focus is, where you look for industry trends and what’s next.
My focus now is entirely on ensuring both my venues continue to offer what they set out to and succeed in leading the way in Brisbane and Australian hospitality. I see no ceiling when it comes to success if we continue to nail our goals and give consistently high quality service and product.
Bars are heading more and more in a food-driven direction. If you don’t offer substantial food, you’re fighting an uphill battle in my opinion. Getting people in the venue is one thing, but getting them to stay is another, and having food gives you every chance of doing that. There are exceptions, naturally, but as a general outlook, I believe dining is critical.
I’m constantly eating and drinking out, not just because I love it, but because I want to learn from others. What are other venues doing that I’m not, where are we better and where can we improve? Is there another bar that’s opening that’s doing a similar thing to us? If so, how can we distance ourselves from that and be better? Venues constantly evolve and in the next 12-18 months my focus is on ensuring that we aren’t plateauing.
In leveraging product trends, how can venues maintain brand identity and not compromise quality or integrity?
It’s difficult, given the cost of everything is constantly rising but it’s also critical to stick to your guns. I’m grateful to work with some excellent brands and excellent people like Vanguard, Proof & Co and the like, who have done a lot for us in terms of pricing and our relationship.
I think this is where truly great service sets you apart and allows you to succeed when others may not. Every venue will tell you they take great pride in their service, but I’m here to tell you they don’t. If they truly did, Brisbane’s scene would be much better off. It’s currently very good, but we’re nowhere near Melbourne and Sydney in terms of service. When you truly dedicate your venue to top class service, people will come back and they will pay $26-28 for a cocktail. If you’re charging that but not backing it up with the entire experience, you’ll suffer. Prices continue to rise and people continue to be out of pocket, so you have to give them a reason to go out and visit your bar. I’m proud that both Before + After and Milquetoast deliver those experiences.
I’d much rather fail whilst sticking to my guns than sacrifice the product and experience in order to stay in business. It’s not who I am.
There’s a lot we hear about the market today but how slim are margins really and what should operators be aiming for?
By the time you factor in wastage, R&D, fluctuating prices and such forth, you’re doing very well to make 65-70% across the board – and that’s just taking food and drink into account. I think a lot of people don’t grasp just how much money goes out of a bar/restaurant. Electricity, water, gas, wages, income tax, Super, consumables, insurance, accountant, software and account subscriptions, maintenance. The list is endless and by the end of the week, there’s not much to pocket, particularly for a small niche bar like Before + After. If you’re opening a bar to make lots of money for yourself, you’re dreaming.
That being said, it isn’t the customers’ problem. They’re coming to you for what you’ve promised them by way of your marketing and your reputation so what do they care about your costs? Give them the best you can and you’ll have a chance.
This interview has been edited for clarity and consistency. Feature image by Daniel Joseph.
